Oh Michael! I adore BOTH of you now. To know there is someone else out there that gets so immersed in a book that the rest of the world ceases to exist ❤️❤️. When my son and I go to swim in the sea, always 6am winter and summer there is a couple who also go at that time, rain or shine. They go every day and when they get out they run in opposite directions on the beach and then run back towards each other to warm up, they're in their 50s. My son and I always look at each other and he says, if I could meet a girl willing to do that I'd be happy and I say, I'd even consider another relationship if I could meet a guy who'd come to the sea with me in the dark of a winter morning.... And we laugh and say "RELATIONSHIP GOALS" ...... and that's all I gotta say about your writing group.... The best fucking thing I've ever heard!
When my kids were young they knew that to 'disturb mum while reading' had to involve either fire or blood! Ha ha, harsh parenting eh!! They learnt to make some decisions for themselves and I'd taught them to spread butter on bread so what else was truly needed that couldn't wait for an hour or so? 😂
Thank you my love. There is a joy and privilege to being seen and accepted so completely. That’s what your love is, it’s the safe place from which I grow.
This was a shot of beaming-ear-to-ear warmth. What an awesome bonding experience, but also what a valuable one as writers. A much younger me surfaces in my head and tells me to write #relationshipgoals. I’ll send him back to his room now.
I don’t have anyone in my life to run my weekly pieces by, but I had great friends in my ear for my last novel. When we talked about it the first time, over a fire pit until 3am, I began defensive and guarded. But then my friends continued to attack with such thoroughness and intensity, and it clicked into place how closely they’d read my manuscript and how deeply they’d thought about and discussed its every thread and idea. I was hearing this relentless tearing apart from two people who loved me and believed in me and the book, and it turned around my perspective on revision and feedback. I’m hesitant to release my next one because I haven’t had both of their intricate attentive readings to work off of, even though I know I’ve done a much better job myself because of what they taught me.
My point: sharing an unfinished work is an intimate act. Receiving feedback on that work, knowing that it could be bad, requires a level of trust unlike so many others. I’m so happy you both have each other because I’m convinced that it’s a blessing to have an unyielding editor in every writer’s life, but that it’s the greatest blessing to have that unyielding editor be someone you love.
(As for The Hen House, her last review has me toying with trying one when I finish my current book. It suffices to say that you’re plugging an excellent publication I’m excited to keep reading.)
Hahaha you’re not the first person in the comments to say #relationshipgoals, so I’ll forgive your younger self hehe.
But in all seriousness, I totally agree with what you said about sharing an unfinished piece. It is so damn scary! Which is why having someone you trust to do it with is so valuable. (And why I consider myself so damn lucky).
Like your experience with your friends, I was very guarded and defensive at first, but once I realised how deeply Evie had engaged with my work, I started to loosen up.
I’ve written briefly before about how Evie and I also go to a writers club; the time for feedback there is more limited and the people offering it more varied. And the feedback is also often a little harsher and I think it’s only because Evie helped me develop a thicker skin that I was able to handle that initially. These days, though, I think as writers it is imperative to develop that thick skin, as constructive feedback is so important.
And yes, Evie mentioned you commented on her last piece. She said something about you leaving a really detailed thoughtful response and I was, like, “yep, that sounds like Michael”.
when you write, "I think as writers it is imperative to develop that thick skin, as constructive feedback is so important." FWIW - my two cents: It's also worth being mindful that so often with writing, if the feedback is not about the CRAFT of the writing, it CAN sometimes be more about the projections of the one giving the feedback, and have nothing to do with your writing...(perhaps this is what is meant by developing a thick skin) but when you do get feedback that resonates, it's invaluable.
I often find that the more impersonal feedback is, the more effective it can be♥️🙏🕊️
I’ll reply to both of you with a definite yes. What I loved about my revision work was that it was so constructive, impersonal, and craft-focused…but delivered by someone I loved so I could hear the feedback clearly without my own insecurity impeding the quality feedback from reaching me.
Thick skin is a huge asset; mine remains membrane thin with some pieces, but the starting point that turned me around toward “I want to revise” and “I want to solicit feedback” was lucking into two friends who knew how to provide the feedback you, Camilla, speak of.
Providing that kind of feedback is a definite art form in and of itself.
(And I’m saving your piece, Camilla, to check out when I read later this weekend :)
Thank you both! Great food for thought after an obviously enjoyable piece.
“The way people respond to your work is sometimes more about them, than your work”.
I guess, the important thing to do is to get good at discerning when the feedback is impersonal and helpful, and when it is just someone’s personal projections.
Thank you Jenn. I really appreciate that and I’m glad you enjoy the piece. Getting to write alongside Evie is something I’m so grateful for, and I’m thrilled to now be able to spread the word about her work with others. I hope you enjoy reading her as much as I do. :)
I was smiling even at your first sentence😁 The smiling of course continued, and I also enjoyed the description of your feedback process which sounds as rigorous as it is intimate😉
I also love how what you've written reflects on the entwining of your creative and romantic lives. Your joint writing practice becomes a metaphor for your love: honest, challenging, playful, and deeply collaborative. Cheers to you both🍾🥂🎉 ✨🧚♀️🤸♀️🌼🌷🪷💕☀️😎💃🕺☯️✨🌟💖🙏
God I love everything about this, especially that you ended it with Evie’s relaunched Substack link! All throughout, I keep thinking, “God I wonder where I can read me some Evie?”
Dave and I started our relationship as “pen pals” - literally met once, exchanged emails, then never saw each other again for four months, but our writing took us everywhere. And these were so not, “Hey how’s it going” emails, but all those dark, messy scrawls that forged a friendship I had never experienced before and founded what is still alive and well 20 years later. (Except sadly, we no longer email each other except a random cat video or to do list.) 😂
Nothing better than creativity and love all smooshed up together. Makes me smile knowing you two have found this in each other.
Thank you Kimberly. I’m so glad you enjoyed the piece. And I’m thrilled you want to “read you some Evie”.
To carry on the idea of luck we discussed yesterday, I consider myself incredibly lucky to have met Evie and that we get to share our writing. And I feel especially fortunate to be the one to spread the word of her writing on here.
Also, omg! Yours and Dave’s meet-cute story is so lovely. There is something so magical about the idea that your writing took you everywhere — that’s beautiful!
It's a rare thing (at least in my world) that two people can share their passion and love for something the way you two do. Thank you for this wonderful introduction to The Hen House and Evie's work.
I loved reading this mate, very romantic and beautiful! And so hilarious - my fave part is where you go "I'll just go fuck myself then" when Chicken was so engrossed in her book 😆 So many books, so little time! Your writing club sounds like the perfect process. I'm a bit wistful since I would love it if my husband and I were more matched in terms of our interests and skills. Meaning I have more cultural interests and he has more skills ☺️
I loved reading this mate, very romantic and beautiful! And so hilarious - my fave part is where you go "I'll just go fuck myself then" when Chicken was so engrossed in her book 😆 So many books, so little time! Your writing club sounds like the perfect process. I'm a bit wistful since I would love it if my husband and I were more matched in terms of our interests and skills. Meaning I have more cultural interests and he has more skills ☺️
Thanks Marmi! I’m so glad you liked this piece. And I’m thrilled you picked out that part as that bit made me chuckle too!
So many books so little time — that’s something Evie says often as well haha.
Yes, we’re very lucky to be matched in this way, but don’t trust me Marmi, we certainly have our mismatches too. I’ll probably write about them one of these days haha.
And P.S — sorry I was so late replying to your comment! I don’t know what happened but somehow it didn’t show up in my notifications. So yeah apologies for that.
And P.P.S — that story about the toilet I promised you is still coming, I’ve just rearranged the order of my post for some inexplicable reason haha :)
I'm glad my comment came through mate but eeks sorry it seems to have been posted 5 times! I kept getting a "There was an error in posting your comment" but it looks like it eventually displayed all my attempts hee hee. I also loved Chicken's recent post about her supposedly large hind quarters, it was very funny and relatable! It dawned on me just now that she is literally the Fox guarding The Hen House 🦊🐓 I can be slow at realizing things 😄
I loved reading this mate, very romantic and beautiful! And so hilarious - my fave part is where you go "I'll just go f* myself then" when Chicken was so engrossed in her book 😆 So many books, so little time! Your writing club sounds like the perfect process. I'm a bit wistful since I would love it if my husband and I were more matched in terms of our interests and skills. Meaning I have more cultural interests and he has more skills ☺️
I loved reading this mate, very romantic and beautiful! And so hilarious - my fave part is where you go "I'll just go f* myself then" when Chicken was so engrossed in her book 😆 So many books, so little time! Your writing club sounds like the perfect process. I'm a bit wistful since I would love it if my husband and I were more matched in terms of our interests and skills. Meaning I have more cultural interests and he has more skills ☺️
I loved reading this mate, very romantic and beautiful! And so hilarious - my fave part is where you go "I'll just go f* myself then" when Chicken was so engrossed in her book 😆 So many books, so little time! Your writing club sounds like the perfect process. I'm a bit wistful since I would love it if my husband and I were more matched in terms of our interests and skills. Meaning I have more cultural interests and he has more skills ☺️
I loved reading this mate, very romantic and beautiful! And so hilarious - my fave part is where you go "I'll just go f* myself then" when Chicken was so engrossed in her book 😆 So many books, so little time! Your writing club sounds like the perfect process. I'm a bit wistful since I would love it if my husband and I were more matched in terms of our interests and skills. Meaning I have more cultural interests and he has more skills ☺️
Oh Michael! I adore BOTH of you now. To know there is someone else out there that gets so immersed in a book that the rest of the world ceases to exist ❤️❤️. When my son and I go to swim in the sea, always 6am winter and summer there is a couple who also go at that time, rain or shine. They go every day and when they get out they run in opposite directions on the beach and then run back towards each other to warm up, they're in their 50s. My son and I always look at each other and he says, if I could meet a girl willing to do that I'd be happy and I say, I'd even consider another relationship if I could meet a guy who'd come to the sea with me in the dark of a winter morning.... And we laugh and say "RELATIONSHIP GOALS" ...... and that's all I gotta say about your writing group.... The best fucking thing I've ever heard!
Thank you April! It’s been the best thing to ever happen to me.
I can’t wait to join this little online community!
Very excited to have you here. Looking forward to your thoughtful critique 😂
Ohhh April, you have no idea! Evie gets immersed in a book like no other haha.
And okay, omg! That couple sounds like something out of a romance movie. That is so damn adorable. Relationship goals, indeed!
And yes, there are many ways in which I consider myself lucky, but having met Evie and being able to share our writing is definitely top of the list.
Thank you April! I’m so glad you enjoyed the piece. And, as always, I thoroughly enjoyed your comment. :)
When my kids were young they knew that to 'disturb mum while reading' had to involve either fire or blood! Ha ha, harsh parenting eh!! They learnt to make some decisions for themselves and I'd taught them to spread butter on bread so what else was truly needed that couldn't wait for an hour or so? 😂
Hahaha omg, that’s hilarious, April! I suspect that if me and Evie have kids, she will be adopting your approach. :)
Thank you my love. There is a joy and privilege to being seen and accepted so completely. That’s what your love is, it’s the safe place from which I grow.
I’ll see you Sunday for the next meeting…
Evelyn, what you write here is so beautiful ✨🌟💖🙏
Awww thank you Chicken. Nothing makes me happier than being the safe place from which you grow. And, by the way, beautifully said.
Yes, Sunday it is — OUR DAY! :)
This was a shot of beaming-ear-to-ear warmth. What an awesome bonding experience, but also what a valuable one as writers. A much younger me surfaces in my head and tells me to write #relationshipgoals. I’ll send him back to his room now.
I don’t have anyone in my life to run my weekly pieces by, but I had great friends in my ear for my last novel. When we talked about it the first time, over a fire pit until 3am, I began defensive and guarded. But then my friends continued to attack with such thoroughness and intensity, and it clicked into place how closely they’d read my manuscript and how deeply they’d thought about and discussed its every thread and idea. I was hearing this relentless tearing apart from two people who loved me and believed in me and the book, and it turned around my perspective on revision and feedback. I’m hesitant to release my next one because I haven’t had both of their intricate attentive readings to work off of, even though I know I’ve done a much better job myself because of what they taught me.
My point: sharing an unfinished work is an intimate act. Receiving feedback on that work, knowing that it could be bad, requires a level of trust unlike so many others. I’m so happy you both have each other because I’m convinced that it’s a blessing to have an unyielding editor in every writer’s life, but that it’s the greatest blessing to have that unyielding editor be someone you love.
(As for The Hen House, her last review has me toying with trying one when I finish my current book. It suffices to say that you’re plugging an excellent publication I’m excited to keep reading.)
Hahaha you’re not the first person in the comments to say #relationshipgoals, so I’ll forgive your younger self hehe.
But in all seriousness, I totally agree with what you said about sharing an unfinished piece. It is so damn scary! Which is why having someone you trust to do it with is so valuable. (And why I consider myself so damn lucky).
Like your experience with your friends, I was very guarded and defensive at first, but once I realised how deeply Evie had engaged with my work, I started to loosen up.
I’ve written briefly before about how Evie and I also go to a writers club; the time for feedback there is more limited and the people offering it more varied. And the feedback is also often a little harsher and I think it’s only because Evie helped me develop a thicker skin that I was able to handle that initially. These days, though, I think as writers it is imperative to develop that thick skin, as constructive feedback is so important.
And yes, Evie mentioned you commented on her last piece. She said something about you leaving a really detailed thoughtful response and I was, like, “yep, that sounds like Michael”.
Thanks bro :)
lol, excuse me for dropping in on this thread, but I'm fascinated by the topic of Feedback and wrote about it here: https://brevity.wordpress.com/2022/12/09/on-useful-feedback/
when you write, "I think as writers it is imperative to develop that thick skin, as constructive feedback is so important." FWIW - my two cents: It's also worth being mindful that so often with writing, if the feedback is not about the CRAFT of the writing, it CAN sometimes be more about the projections of the one giving the feedback, and have nothing to do with your writing...(perhaps this is what is meant by developing a thick skin) but when you do get feedback that resonates, it's invaluable.
I often find that the more impersonal feedback is, the more effective it can be♥️🙏🕊️
Offered, "on the table" 😁
I’ll reply to both of you with a definite yes. What I loved about my revision work was that it was so constructive, impersonal, and craft-focused…but delivered by someone I loved so I could hear the feedback clearly without my own insecurity impeding the quality feedback from reaching me.
Thick skin is a huge asset; mine remains membrane thin with some pieces, but the starting point that turned me around toward “I want to revise” and “I want to solicit feedback” was lucking into two friends who knew how to provide the feedback you, Camilla, speak of.
Providing that kind of feedback is a definite art form in and of itself.
(And I’m saving your piece, Camilla, to check out when I read later this weekend :)
Thank you both! Great food for thought after an obviously enjoyable piece.
Yes, well said Michael.
There is most certainly an art to providing good feedback.
And, as Camilla has made me think, there is also an art to discerning when the feedback is right for you. :)
I couldn’t agree more Camilla.
I often try to remind myself of the saying:
“The way people respond to your work is sometimes more about them, than your work”.
I guess, the important thing to do is to get good at discerning when the feedback is impersonal and helpful, and when it is just someone’s personal projections.
Thanks Camilla :)
This is so sweet. What a lovely reading club! I love that you guys write together and I’m looking forward to reading chicken now, too!
Thank you Jenn. I really appreciate that and I’m glad you enjoy the piece. Getting to write alongside Evie is something I’m so grateful for, and I’m thrilled to now be able to spread the word about her work with others. I hope you enjoy reading her as much as I do. :)
That is a wonderful gift to share, I wish you many happy meetings in your writers club!
Thank you Jenn! Your well wishes are greatly appreciated :)
I was smiling even at your first sentence😁 The smiling of course continued, and I also enjoyed the description of your feedback process which sounds as rigorous as it is intimate😉
I also love how what you've written reflects on the entwining of your creative and romantic lives. Your joint writing practice becomes a metaphor for your love: honest, challenging, playful, and deeply collaborative. Cheers to you both🍾🥂🎉 ✨🧚♀️🤸♀️🌼🌷🪷💕☀️😎💃🕺☯️✨🌟💖🙏
You know what I enjoyed about our interactions Camilla? … It feels like we’re always swapping smiles and laughs — and I love it!
I mean, wow, your comment just made me smile so much! What you said here—
“Your joint writing practice becomes a metaphor for your love: honest, challenging, playful, and deeply collaborative.”
— is so damn lovely! Evie is out right now, but I cannot wait to show her that!
Thank you so much Camilla. I really appreciate your kind words. :)
lol, I'm chuckling in front of my laptop now too😂
It’s certainly an interaction full of fun-n-joy-(and-rascality) :)
That's exactly the Aussie humor I love - and miss!😁Thanks for being such a source of Aussie funenjoy in the digital realm🥰♥️🙏🕊️
But, of course! What else would a curious platypus even do?! hehehe
Thanks Camilla :)
I can't wait for that platypus emoji!😁
God I love everything about this, especially that you ended it with Evie’s relaunched Substack link! All throughout, I keep thinking, “God I wonder where I can read me some Evie?”
Dave and I started our relationship as “pen pals” - literally met once, exchanged emails, then never saw each other again for four months, but our writing took us everywhere. And these were so not, “Hey how’s it going” emails, but all those dark, messy scrawls that forged a friendship I had never experienced before and founded what is still alive and well 20 years later. (Except sadly, we no longer email each other except a random cat video or to do list.) 😂
Nothing better than creativity and love all smooshed up together. Makes me smile knowing you two have found this in each other.
Thank you Kimberly. I’m so glad you enjoyed the piece. And I’m thrilled you want to “read you some Evie”.
To carry on the idea of luck we discussed yesterday, I consider myself incredibly lucky to have met Evie and that we get to share our writing. And I feel especially fortunate to be the one to spread the word of her writing on here.
Also, omg! Yours and Dave’s meet-cute story is so lovely. There is something so magical about the idea that your writing took you everywhere — that’s beautiful!
Thanks again Kimberly, I appreciate you. :)
It's a rare thing (at least in my world) that two people can share their passion and love for something the way you two do. Thank you for this wonderful introduction to The Hen House and Evie's work.
Yes, it feels pretty rare, which makes me feel incredibly lucky to have had it happen.
Thank you Donna. It is a privilege to get to spread the word about Evie’s work with our little Substack community. :)
Hear the conga line music in your head and top it off with Olé! This is my celebration of this post and your relationship!
Awww thank you SJ! That is so lovely! I really appreciate it. Conga, conga, conga, Olé! :)
Book ends sanctioned by Venus and Thoth .... how wonderful ❤️
Hahaha handed down by Gods themselves!
Thanks Emmett :)
I loved reading this mate, very romantic and beautiful! And so hilarious - my fave part is where you go "I'll just go fuck myself then" when Chicken was so engrossed in her book 😆 So many books, so little time! Your writing club sounds like the perfect process. I'm a bit wistful since I would love it if my husband and I were more matched in terms of our interests and skills. Meaning I have more cultural interests and he has more skills ☺️
I loved reading this mate, very romantic and beautiful! And so hilarious - my fave part is where you go "I'll just go fuck myself then" when Chicken was so engrossed in her book 😆 So many books, so little time! Your writing club sounds like the perfect process. I'm a bit wistful since I would love it if my husband and I were more matched in terms of our interests and skills. Meaning I have more cultural interests and he has more skills ☺️
Thanks Marmi! I’m so glad you liked this piece. And I’m thrilled you picked out that part as that bit made me chuckle too!
So many books so little time — that’s something Evie says often as well haha.
Yes, we’re very lucky to be matched in this way, but don’t trust me Marmi, we certainly have our mismatches too. I’ll probably write about them one of these days haha.
And P.S — sorry I was so late replying to your comment! I don’t know what happened but somehow it didn’t show up in my notifications. So yeah apologies for that.
And P.P.S — that story about the toilet I promised you is still coming, I’ve just rearranged the order of my post for some inexplicable reason haha :)
Thanks again Marmi :)
I'm glad my comment came through mate but eeks sorry it seems to have been posted 5 times! I kept getting a "There was an error in posting your comment" but it looks like it eventually displayed all my attempts hee hee. I also loved Chicken's recent post about her supposedly large hind quarters, it was very funny and relatable! It dawned on me just now that she is literally the Fox guarding The Hen House 🦊🐓 I can be slow at realizing things 😄
Hahaha yeah, I was wondering about that! I’m glad they all came through in the end.
And ohh that’s so wonderful Marmi, I’m thrilled to hear you enjoyed Evie’s latest post.
And haha yes, she’s the Fox guarding the Hen House — it’s a pretty tricky name (so much so that I didn’t get it at first either hehe).
Thanks again Marmi! :)
I loved reading this mate, very romantic and beautiful! And so hilarious - my fave part is where you go "I'll just go f* myself then" when Chicken was so engrossed in her book 😆 So many books, so little time! Your writing club sounds like the perfect process. I'm a bit wistful since I would love it if my husband and I were more matched in terms of our interests and skills. Meaning I have more cultural interests and he has more skills ☺️
I loved reading this mate, very romantic and beautiful! And so hilarious - my fave part is where you go "I'll just go f* myself then" when Chicken was so engrossed in her book 😆 So many books, so little time! Your writing club sounds like the perfect process. I'm a bit wistful since I would love it if my husband and I were more matched in terms of our interests and skills. Meaning I have more cultural interests and he has more skills ☺️
I loved reading this mate, very romantic and beautiful! And so hilarious - my fave part is where you go "I'll just go f* myself then" when Chicken was so engrossed in her book 😆 So many books, so little time! Your writing club sounds like the perfect process. I'm a bit wistful since I would love it if my husband and I were more matched in terms of our interests and skills. Meaning I have more cultural interests and he has more skills ☺️
I loved reading this mate, very romantic and beautiful! And so hilarious - my fave part is where you go "I'll just go f* myself then" when Chicken was so engrossed in her book 😆 So many books, so little time! Your writing club sounds like the perfect process. I'm a bit wistful since I would love it if my husband and I were more matched in terms of our interests and skills. Meaning I have more cultural interests and he has more skills ☺️
Cutest couple ever! This was lovely to read mate. And so funny - the part about Evie being so engrossed in her book and your reaction 😆
Thank you Marmi!
I’m so glad you enjoyed it. And I’m so happy to hear that part made you giggle :)