Oh, I'm so glad I subscribed today. Your words struck a chord, and reminded me of Alan Watts who used to say, "we didn't come into this world, we came out of it".
Firstly, I’m really glad you subscribed today too - welcome to my weird little corner of the internet.
Secondly, I absolutely love, Alan Watts and so much of what he said. In fact, the ending of this piece was at least in part inspired by him and all the lectures of his I’ve listened too.
Thirdly, thank you for your lovely comment and for subscribing, I really appreciate it. :)
Thank you Michael, it's good to be here in this little corner of yours. Maybe this corner is bigger than you think, and maybe it is expanding little by little, like the Universe.
Thank you, Fotini, that is so kind — and so fitting — of you to say.
Interestingly enough, I have always been perplexed by what exactly the universe is expanding into — but I guess that will have to be a post for another time. :)
Hi Michael, as you know, I love reading your writing and I can imagine enjoying having a very philosophical conversation with you. And I just have to tell you that this made me laugh and I'm wondering with this:
"I’m going to make the case that it is just as ridiculous for the realists to say that “the Universe doesn’t care”, as it is for the hippies to say that “it does care”."
if you intentionally wrote "the realists" with tongue in cheek. I'm guessing you did, which makes me smile as you're calling the camp who believe "the universe doesn't care" the realists.
And this also makes me smile "so that I can make the case that the most ridiculous thing about this whole discussion is that some people talk about it as if they actually know for sure. " as the irony is that you are writing as though you know for sure that others do not know for sure 😆 such is the nature of philosophical conversations😉
And re this: "Because the way I see it (and hang onto your hats because this is about to be a bombshell): we just don’t know." I agree that I don't know for you or for anyone else, but I do know for me😁 and by shining a light on one's own truth, there's the hope that maybe it will be of service to someone else on their own path.
Also it's true that the scientists cannot pin down the nature of consciousness, but I have read that quantum physics is getting close.
And I love this part the best: "And when you look at it like that, it becomes clear that this debate isn’t actually about whether the Universe does or doesn’t care – it’s about which conception of reality people think is best. Hint: everyone thinks their conception is the best (especially me)"
I love how you've structured this piece both with your humor at the beginning, "Serious bonus points for anyone who makes it all the way to the end." and I absolutely love your conclusion, "See, if we’re all a part of the Universe, and we all care about what happens to us. Then, doesn’t that mean the Universe does care about us? Because we’re it."
Thank you, Camilla, for such a lovely and thoughtful comment.
I totally agree I’m sure we would have some very enjoyable philosophical conversations.
And yes, it’s safe to assume that most of this — even though it may pretend to be serious in parts — is all very tongue and cheek and ironic. Because if I am being serious about anything it’s that, for me, I think it’s funny that anybody thinks they know for sure what’s going on. And so, I’m certainly not going to sincerely claim that I know what’s going on. I have my beliefs and, as you said, you know for you, and I think it’s good that people decide for themselves and share that with others. I just think it’s kinda ridiculous when people claim to know not just for themselves but for everyone — that’s what I was making fun of.
And thank you so much, Camilla, for pointing out all the different parts you liked or that were thought-provoking for you.
I’m really glad you liked my ending, which is my genuine opinion by the way, and I’m glad you enjoyed the humour.
"I think it’s funny that anybody thinks they know for sure what’s going on." I agree 100% (which is probably a large part of why I enjoy your writing so much😉) and I'm delighted that a young Australian man feels this way, as the old white males/patriarchy has historically asserted "THIS is the RIGHT way and the ONLY right way!" and I'm sooooo happy we're living in an era where this is changing, and it's evolving into an era of recognizing the value of diversity! Maybe human beings will even learn how to stop "othering" other people, and recognize blame and projection have become so last era 😁 And Happy Thanksgiving from here in the Northern Hemisphere of our beautiful planet 🦃🍗🍷🥧🍁🍂❄️🔥
This was hilariously awesome and further solidified my complete satisfaction in choosing to go through life on nothing but vibes and faith. Bravo, Michael. 💥
Such a great essay Michael Platypus. So enjoyable to read. Also, this
"When do the particles that make up what I am, begin caring about things? In other words, how are caring people made up of uncaring particles?"
Okay, so what happens is this. The particles all march along in strict formation like a parade ground and then one particle's little hand accidentally touches another particle's hand and then before you know it, all the little particles are holding hands and then BAM you have a caring person. I am pretty sure this is ACTUAL science.
Also......"that is, before God had that little run in with Nietzsche" ha ha ha ha ha..... they should never have been in the pub together in the first place.
Also.... I literally put out a post today saying the SAME thing about words! But just not as good okay, you used more words.
Thank you so much for explaining how the particles all play handsies right into a caring person, that was the best — and most totally scientific — explanation I have heard in all my years of investigating particles haha :)
I know, right!? God had already been kicked out of that pub once for causing a fuss haha
Ohhh how exciting! I can’t wait to read your post about the problem with words. As they say, April - great (crazy) minds think alike. :)
But in all seriousness, thank you for the lovely and hilarious comment, April, it is much appreciated!
And also ... ‘Michael Platypus’ I may have to legally change my name.
Just glad I could help Michael, I know this science stuff can be a bit overwhelming so it's good for you to get proper guidance from someone as wise as myself. Anytime.
Ahh, the joys of philosophy...! Considering how little we do know and how subjective it all is does give me regular vertigo...Another great post, Michael.
It's funny how the sun keeps rising and setting (for now) and people keep falling in love and having children; babies are born, grow old and die - all without ever knowing, or really needing to know for sure, the secrets of the universe. Not that it's not an important subject - especially with as much humor and skepticism as you bring to the table, Michael - but it starts to feel a little bit like a fun game, which I love, and less like settled dogma, which I hate. I say this, I suppose, because for many people the question of the "universe" and "caring" boils down to God and God's love.
I've always sort of laughed at the idea of "Biblical scholars" - a scholar of history, ok; a scholar of literature or philosophy, for sure; but a Biblical scholar carries about as much weight for me as a scholar of Tolkien and Middle Earth - "adorable." 🤪 Great post, Michael!
I so appreciate your comments, Troy. I often feel like you sum things up in your comment better than I did in the piece I spent two weeks working on — and I mean that sincerely.
I very much agree, I don’t think we need to know anything for sure to live a good life. And I think that a part of the fun, at least for me, is in speculating in a humorous and unattached way. Because I, like you, am about fun, and totally against dogma, or any such claims of absolute knowing. I like that things are uncertain and that we don’t know — it’s humbling.
Haha yes, biblical scholars sure are cute.
And by the way, smooth Hume induction line there at the beginning — very classy. :)
Thanks for such a thoughtful comment, brother, it much appreciated.
You did an excellent job tackling a difficult topic Michael. My fav part was the ending. Bam! There you have it - because we are it! I have an internal bias to this ending because it's directly in line with my own beliefs which made me like it even more🤣, but the most important aspect is your assertion that we have no way of knowing. There is no way we can know for sure...yet.
I’m so glad you enjoyed the ending, Donna. Because truth be told, I wrote that whole piece in large part just because I wanted to drop that ending. And because, yes, I don’t think we have any way of knowing.
And by the way, I love the cheeky “... yet.” that you added in at the end there. :)
Thanks for the lovely comment, Donna. And just so you know — even though I’m not really sure why — I like that we hold the same belief in this regard.
Hahaha! A fitting joke indeed, RenoQueen. And your right, I think I would need Gods help if they were to try have me committed, after all, they could use pieces like this post to mount their case haha.
But in all seriousness, thank you, that is so kind of you to say.
And yes, it’s not easy providing all the answers, but I figured if the scientists weren’t going to do it someone had too haha :)
HahaI was going to stop at the first line. I didn't think you would take it the wrong way but others might think I was some right wing nut. The scientist keep changing their mind based on new information which just speaks to half-assed research with caveats and a lack of conviction. I joke btw I know there are often constraints to research. I leave science alone sometimes as so much has to do with being at peace with whatever one practices or believes in.
Your philosophy rants are my favourite - either in person or online. Not that I’m really that well versed in philosophy, but you are my favourite philosopher.
Evelyn you so kind! No one has ever called me their favourite philosopher before hehehe
You are also so funny! Because its not that I don’t appreciate what your saying, it’s just that sometimes when I rant my philosophical jibberish to you in person, the look on your face gives me the feeling that your not all that interested in my musings....
Nah I’m just kidding chicken, I love ranting with (at) you. Thank you for your thoughtful comment. And thank you for putting up with me in person.
I think you brought a refreshingly humorous and original POV to the usual heavy, tryptophan-laced buffet of learned philosophical thought surrounding the age-old question of WHY?, and the equally valid obverse, BECAUSE. But I can’t know for sure.
Thank you, Kathleen. I’m glad you found my philosophical rant humorous. I have always found it strange that so much of philosophy is written in the dry, tryptophan-like way (great use of that word by the way) because it seems like there is room to have fun with it. So I figured I’d give it a go. I’m glad it worked for you.
And thank you for reading and for sharing your thoughts in this comment, it is much appreciated :)
We the people with our size brain are trying to make sense of something that is beyond our comprehension.
The universal brain or consciousness God whatever we call it is way out of our understanding league.
It’s like me expecting my cat 🐈 slinky Malinki 😊 to understand how a motorcycle works .
But but there’s always a Butt 😊.
If one sits still and calms the mind a universal mind Gods mind will reassure us there’s no-thing to worry about no-thing to do just be.
We forget we’re Human beings
Not human doings.
So in closing we will never know if the universe cares or doesn’t care. Until we go back to our creator.
Then if we decide to take human form again (fuck that for a joke this is my last time round in a physical body) we forget where we came from and start all over again.
OK so it’s Thanksgiving morning, which means the holiday onslaught has begun, which means that if you and I were on my text program I would be sending you a GIF of Kevin from Home Alone running around his house, spinning ecstatic circles, waving hands in the air, screaming in glee, and clenching his fist with an ever-so-satisfied, “YES!”
My whole teaching system is designed off the Elements, dude, and in this system I am constantly asking these things! Literally - "how do YOU know, did you ask them?” How does anybody know that the rocks and the water and that little smidge of air over there and the candle flame and this electron of that star are not conscious? We can finally see what trees are doing with each other now. Does my liver CARE what I feed it or only my mind/heart after the effects of my feeding have hacked off my liver enough that now it’s giving me pain and problems? When you say “I wub you” is it only my brain that cares (even though I say it’s my heart, and for that matter, is the physical heart truly involved or are the pangs I feel in my chest when you “pull my heartstrings” simply a result of biochemical reactions and what my mind thinks about that mushy thing you just said to me, as subject to my personal makeup, experiences, influences and my survival-instinct, seratonin/oxytocin, pack/herd bonding brain, thus creating the “feeling”--and then what about my “gut feelings”? Are my gut organs actually involved in the caring or is it only the part of my brain sending signals to Keep Organism Alive and my large intestine couldn’t give two craps, especially when I feed it too many carbs on not enough probiotics)?
Does my consciousness and caring include the whole nervous system, not only my slab of zombie-nom? Does that system include all the energetic residue within me and surrounding me that, when I croak, ceases animating this flesh and bone? When I bite the big one, does that energy go into a star or a newt or the water that drowned me or some dimension my piddly human brain can’t comprehend and if so, does it keep caring and if not, WHY? I dunno. Do I care? YES! And equally, a great resounding NOPE. What about when my energy reaches out and dances with somebody else’s? What about all the aspects of me that human scientific instruments can’t record yet?
In other words: thank you. You do this way better than I do. All this Kevin-ness is why I dance these things, not put them into words because…well, you already said it. They’re too big and too cool and too fascinating and it thrills me that you were able to at least start touching upon what makes me go all 🤩🤔😻🧐🤯🥰 over that most wondrous of life’s gifts: curiosity and the answer of, “I dunno.” (Of course...is it a gift? Is it a curse? Is it both? Yeah. Both! Neither? Who’s to say it’s good or bad? Because some of the most awful, painful things I’ve ever endured led to the most amazing things I never would have experienced without it so IS it bad? The reverse is equally true. And what is “bad”? And who says? And do I really KNOW that I don’t know or do I *Know* but I don’t currently know that I know? And…and…and…)
Long story short: It’s Thanksgiving Morning, dear gem, and you are an instigator of that sensation in mah brains and my heart and my AND. The only problem I had with getting to the end of this post was not getting distracted by all the gazillion questions and curiosities each of yours ignited into offshoots like Hobbits accidentally setting off one firework into the whole tent of them. FFS. Shutting up now. 🤣
There is no way I can properly respond to your comment without going on my own curiosity fuelled rant where I start by saying:
“dude, I know, right!? I mean, when I have a thought about the particles that make up my brain does that mean my particles are thinking about themselves? And how are they thinking? Do they have super tiny particles in their head that fuel their thoughts? And how far down does it actually go? And how crazy is it that we now know trees communicate with each other through the ground? And what’s the deal with some us being so curious anyway? Is it something in me like in my DNA? Or is it something I learnt through my parents - because they don’t seem very curious. And why can’t science measure curiosity, and yet we acknowledge it exists, but other things that science can’t measure we seem unwilling to acknowledge that they exist? And don’t even get me started on rocks. No word of a lie, Alexx, one of my philosophy professors once gave some example about consciousness and she said that “we know rocks aren’t conscious” and I raised my hand and said “how do we know that?”
(I liked your rant way better than mine, but I tried).
Now while I could go on indefinitely, let me just say, reading your comment made me smile so much!
It is always so nice when you come across someone else who matches your level of eccentricity.
And thank you so much for saying you enjoyed the way I put my mess of curiosity into words, that is such a lovely compliment. And I must say, I think you do far better at conveying your own curious musings than you give yourself credit for.
“Dude, I know, right?!” I can see that it would be a never ending, spiraling tidy bowl of dork-doom if one of us didn’t put a lid on that because yeah! Particles--and what about dimensions? See, your version at least did a really great translation for...ahem...people whose skull contents aren’t firework-thieving hobbits trying to masquerade as brains. I can translate some of my topics. But when you get me ponging off a really great ping like this one? The 12 hamster wheels all start spinning and I get way too excited going “meep-meep-morp-blonk.” 👽🤖 I’m so glad you understood (and even enjoyed) my untranslated native language. 🤪
If you dig the trees and their communications, have you seen the North Forest Lights series I’m doing over on Tinkerings? SUCH a mind blowing art/nature exhibit inspired largely by that phenomenon! Especially the Crystal Grove. (1st installment) Here. Lemme get the link.
Your so right, it is endlessly exciting. And I absolutely love the way you said it: “The 12 hamster wheels all start spinning and I get way too excited going “meep-meep-morp-blonk.”” — that was fantastic!
I have not seen The North Forest Lights series you’re doing over on Tinkerings (I don’t know what either of those things are) but you have certainly piqued my interest. I’ll be sure to check out the link. Thanks!
Woot! Tinkerings is my 2nd of 3 Substack publications. It’s my Safe(er) For Work art & nature, 5 elements, creative rabbit hole, 12 hamster wheel hyperfixator hub. In contrast to the other 2--my memoir stuff and related fiction, and my fantasy fiction--those can get NSFW. 🤪
Ok here’s the opener and what this exhibit was. It’ll take you to the rest if you follow the links, or they’re all at the top of the Tinkerings page cuz I’m on #5 of 7 in the series. (Intro, the 5 installations, and the amazing tech behind the scenes when I went during the day as they were tearing it down.) 🤩
So brilliant, Michael, as always, this was so much fun. I find it’s so sweet (so sweet!) that human beings think they could ever actual understand ‘the universe’ with a human brain! It makes me think of a monkey trying to tune a piano using a hammer—like, “ok, but, not only are you just not mentally equipped for that, you’re also using the wrong tool! Bless, though, I hope you’re having fun, at least!”. I’ve come to quite enjoy the not-knowing, and while I love that I’ll never know, I certainly hope that panpsychism (or panexperientialism at least) is part of the Truth, because I like the idea of that kind of world (and it lines up nicely with my DMT experiences 🤫). Thank you, Michael!!
Thank you, Chloe. Your right, it is ohh-so-sweet that humans think they could ever actually understand the infinite. It’s actually kinda cute, like I understand the urge, but I, like you, actually appreciate not knowing — it’s humbling.
As for your hope that a panpsychist or panexperientialsim view is closer to the truth — I share such a hope, and partly because of my own DMT experiences. After all, such experiences are hard to discount (I think you know what I mean).
Ohhh that last line is a zinger! This essay made me cackle like a maniac part of the universe enjoying one big cosmic joke. Trying to pick apart this big hairy problem reminds me of this funny saying I picked up in my psych degree—"The study of psychology is the just the human brain trying to understand itself."
It's seems so comical that the tool we have in our head is trying to understand the tool we have in head. Endless loops can happen there (and maybe that's the point?). And I guess the same could be said from your post. Maybe we are trying to 'Understand The Universe' as part of the Universe. Hence we have to come up with a bunch of convoluted ideas and theories and just stick to the one that 'works for us'. As you said, maybe God isn't dead—we've just replaced it with other entities/beliefs.
Around age 27, it hit me I had replaced 'God' with 'Science'. For me, 'God' was something that my Jewish ancestors had used to survive and get me here today. But the old school 'HaShem' wasn't so relevant to my life growing up in secular/loosely Christian Australia.
Instead—'Science' was the all-knowing, irrefutable measurement of 'Truth'. And it wasn't until something deeper than science emerged in my consciousness that those ideas started to break down. After all that, I came to a similar conclusion as you did in this essay: I certainly am PART of The Universe. But what that means for me/you/us/the people/the planet/the universe etc... As you stated to eloquently—we just don't know!!
P.s. I really liked the layout of this post with the philosophical arguments all laid out one after the other. I'd read another one of these for sure.
I also came across the idea of the mind trying to understand itself in my philosophy degree — it is such an interesting conundrum.
I’m so glad you mentioned the many convoluted ideas we come up with to understand something we can’t — as that was definitely a part of my intended point.
Yes, I had a similar experience, I totally fell into “the all-knowing truth” of science there for a while. It does certainly feel like it is the god of our time.
And thank you, I’m happy to hear the ending resonated with you and you enjoyed the lay out. It very much appreciated :)
Ah you're welcome Michael. It's interesting that came up the philosophy degree too (although maybe I shouldn't be surprised bc psychology has roots in philosophy). Yes. I couldn't agree more that science often feels like the god of our time. I wonder what the next god will be? But I have a feeling it might be after our lifetimes... What do you think?
Sometimes I wonder about what people will believe in the next 100 or 1000 years and how they'll look back on our many convoluted ideas lol.
Yeah I did a ‘philosophy of mind’ class, and it discussed that and the Cartesian heritage and the subjective objective split etc., it was very interesting.
I imagine if they do make actual legit conscious AI that could definitely be touted as a god for a while
Yeah, that thought entertains me too. I mean, what behaviour do we do now that people in 200 years will see as morally abhorrent behaviour? That one always makes me laugh because really it should help the people of today not feel so morally superior to the people of the past, because soon enough we will be them.
Wow 🫨
Thanks Daisy! I’m glad this piece “Wowed” you haha :)
Oh, I'm so glad I subscribed today. Your words struck a chord, and reminded me of Alan Watts who used to say, "we didn't come into this world, we came out of it".
Thank you, Fotini!
Firstly, I’m really glad you subscribed today too - welcome to my weird little corner of the internet.
Secondly, I absolutely love, Alan Watts and so much of what he said. In fact, the ending of this piece was at least in part inspired by him and all the lectures of his I’ve listened too.
Thirdly, thank you for your lovely comment and for subscribing, I really appreciate it. :)
Thank you Michael, it's good to be here in this little corner of yours. Maybe this corner is bigger than you think, and maybe it is expanding little by little, like the Universe.
Thank you, Fotini, that is so kind — and so fitting — of you to say.
Interestingly enough, I have always been perplexed by what exactly the universe is expanding into — but I guess that will have to be a post for another time. :)
Until then, let's chant together "we just don't know"
Hahaha I love it!
“We just don’t know, we just don’t know...”
thank you Fotini this comment totally made me smile :)
Hi Michael, as you know, I love reading your writing and I can imagine enjoying having a very philosophical conversation with you. And I just have to tell you that this made me laugh and I'm wondering with this:
"I’m going to make the case that it is just as ridiculous for the realists to say that “the Universe doesn’t care”, as it is for the hippies to say that “it does care”."
if you intentionally wrote "the realists" with tongue in cheek. I'm guessing you did, which makes me smile as you're calling the camp who believe "the universe doesn't care" the realists.
And this also makes me smile "so that I can make the case that the most ridiculous thing about this whole discussion is that some people talk about it as if they actually know for sure. " as the irony is that you are writing as though you know for sure that others do not know for sure 😆 such is the nature of philosophical conversations😉
And re this: "Because the way I see it (and hang onto your hats because this is about to be a bombshell): we just don’t know." I agree that I don't know for you or for anyone else, but I do know for me😁 and by shining a light on one's own truth, there's the hope that maybe it will be of service to someone else on their own path.
Also it's true that the scientists cannot pin down the nature of consciousness, but I have read that quantum physics is getting close.
And I love this part the best: "And when you look at it like that, it becomes clear that this debate isn’t actually about whether the Universe does or doesn’t care – it’s about which conception of reality people think is best. Hint: everyone thinks their conception is the best (especially me)"
I love how you've structured this piece both with your humor at the beginning, "Serious bonus points for anyone who makes it all the way to the end." and I absolutely love your conclusion, "See, if we’re all a part of the Universe, and we all care about what happens to us. Then, doesn’t that mean the Universe does care about us? Because we’re it."
Bravo Michael for another engaging piece!✨🌟💖🙏🕊️
Hmm. Lots to think about. I took a crack at a non-theistic Creation Story, in two parts:
https://mikegoodenowweber.substack.com/p/a-new-nontheistic-creation-story
https://mikegoodenowweber.substack.com/p/a-new-nontheistic-creation-story-25f
Thanks Mike!
I’ll be sure to check that out.
Thank you, Camilla, for such a lovely and thoughtful comment.
I totally agree I’m sure we would have some very enjoyable philosophical conversations.
And yes, it’s safe to assume that most of this — even though it may pretend to be serious in parts — is all very tongue and cheek and ironic. Because if I am being serious about anything it’s that, for me, I think it’s funny that anybody thinks they know for sure what’s going on. And so, I’m certainly not going to sincerely claim that I know what’s going on. I have my beliefs and, as you said, you know for you, and I think it’s good that people decide for themselves and share that with others. I just think it’s kinda ridiculous when people claim to know not just for themselves but for everyone — that’s what I was making fun of.
And thank you so much, Camilla, for pointing out all the different parts you liked or that were thought-provoking for you.
I’m really glad you liked my ending, which is my genuine opinion by the way, and I’m glad you enjoyed the humour.
Thanks Camilla :)
"I think it’s funny that anybody thinks they know for sure what’s going on." I agree 100% (which is probably a large part of why I enjoy your writing so much😉) and I'm delighted that a young Australian man feels this way, as the old white males/patriarchy has historically asserted "THIS is the RIGHT way and the ONLY right way!" and I'm sooooo happy we're living in an era where this is changing, and it's evolving into an era of recognizing the value of diversity! Maybe human beings will even learn how to stop "othering" other people, and recognize blame and projection have become so last era 😁 And Happy Thanksgiving from here in the Northern Hemisphere of our beautiful planet 🦃🍗🍷🥧🍁🍂❄️🔥
Yes, the idea that someone would suggest that “this is the right way and the only way” definitely rubs me the wrong way haha.
In fact, I have lots of favourite quotes, but I think this one is appropriate to our current discussion:
“trust those who seek the truth but doubt those who say they have found it.” — Andre Gide.
And I agree, Camilla, I think slowly slowly things are changing and it’s wonderful.
Happy thanks giving to you too. And thank you for offering up such thoughtful comments. :)
This was hilariously awesome and further solidified my complete satisfaction in choosing to go through life on nothing but vibes and faith. Bravo, Michael. 💥
A most excellent way to go through life, well done Jenovia!
Thank you, Donna! It was hard learned but I learned it nonetheless 🥹❤️🔥
Of course a million cliché responses come to mind about the hard-earned lessons! I know them and you know them so I won't put them here🤣
😂😭💯
Thank you, Jenovia. And I must say, I absolutely love that that was what you got from this piece. Vibes and faith is the way to go!
Thanks again, Jenovia :)
Such a great essay Michael Platypus. So enjoyable to read. Also, this
"When do the particles that make up what I am, begin caring about things? In other words, how are caring people made up of uncaring particles?"
Okay, so what happens is this. The particles all march along in strict formation like a parade ground and then one particle's little hand accidentally touches another particle's hand and then before you know it, all the little particles are holding hands and then BAM you have a caring person. I am pretty sure this is ACTUAL science.
Also......"that is, before God had that little run in with Nietzsche" ha ha ha ha ha..... they should never have been in the pub together in the first place.
Also.... I literally put out a post today saying the SAME thing about words! But just not as good okay, you used more words.
April, this is such a fantastic comment!
Thank you so much for explaining how the particles all play handsies right into a caring person, that was the best — and most totally scientific — explanation I have heard in all my years of investigating particles haha :)
I know, right!? God had already been kicked out of that pub once for causing a fuss haha
Ohhh how exciting! I can’t wait to read your post about the problem with words. As they say, April - great (crazy) minds think alike. :)
But in all seriousness, thank you for the lovely and hilarious comment, April, it is much appreciated!
And also ... ‘Michael Platypus’ I may have to legally change my name.
Just glad I could help Michael, I know this science stuff can be a bit overwhelming so it's good for you to get proper guidance from someone as wise as myself. Anytime.
Hahaha I love it!
Ahh, the joys of philosophy...! Considering how little we do know and how subjective it all is does give me regular vertigo...Another great post, Michael.
Yes, Mya! You summed it up perfectly; “how little we know and how subjective it all is” — beautiful.
And yes, I agree it can give one vertigo, but I also find it kind of humbling :)
Thank you, Mya for being here and for such a wonderful comment, I really appreciate it.
It's funny how the sun keeps rising and setting (for now) and people keep falling in love and having children; babies are born, grow old and die - all without ever knowing, or really needing to know for sure, the secrets of the universe. Not that it's not an important subject - especially with as much humor and skepticism as you bring to the table, Michael - but it starts to feel a little bit like a fun game, which I love, and less like settled dogma, which I hate. I say this, I suppose, because for many people the question of the "universe" and "caring" boils down to God and God's love.
I've always sort of laughed at the idea of "Biblical scholars" - a scholar of history, ok; a scholar of literature or philosophy, for sure; but a Biblical scholar carries about as much weight for me as a scholar of Tolkien and Middle Earth - "adorable." 🤪 Great post, Michael!
I so appreciate your comments, Troy. I often feel like you sum things up in your comment better than I did in the piece I spent two weeks working on — and I mean that sincerely.
I very much agree, I don’t think we need to know anything for sure to live a good life. And I think that a part of the fun, at least for me, is in speculating in a humorous and unattached way. Because I, like you, am about fun, and totally against dogma, or any such claims of absolute knowing. I like that things are uncertain and that we don’t know — it’s humbling.
Haha yes, biblical scholars sure are cute.
And by the way, smooth Hume induction line there at the beginning — very classy. :)
Thanks for such a thoughtful comment, brother, it much appreciated.
Biblical scholar: oxymoron. 😁
I have used those exact words before, yes. ;)
In fairness, I think people can get a PhD in Tolkien or Taylor Swift, these days. 😁
Haha I know! Adorable! 🤣
You did an excellent job tackling a difficult topic Michael. My fav part was the ending. Bam! There you have it - because we are it! I have an internal bias to this ending because it's directly in line with my own beliefs which made me like it even more🤣, but the most important aspect is your assertion that we have no way of knowing. There is no way we can know for sure...yet.
I’m so glad you enjoyed the ending, Donna. Because truth be told, I wrote that whole piece in large part just because I wanted to drop that ending. And because, yes, I don’t think we have any way of knowing.
And by the way, I love the cheeky “... yet.” that you added in at the end there. :)
Thanks for the lovely comment, Donna. And just so you know — even though I’m not really sure why — I like that we hold the same belief in this regard.
May God help you Michael. Joke aside a circuitous and charming post. Unlike all the scientists, you actually have an answer.
Hahaha! A fitting joke indeed, RenoQueen. And your right, I think I would need Gods help if they were to try have me committed, after all, they could use pieces like this post to mount their case haha.
But in all seriousness, thank you, that is so kind of you to say.
And yes, it’s not easy providing all the answers, but I figured if the scientists weren’t going to do it someone had too haha :)
Thanks RenoQueen.
HahaI was going to stop at the first line. I didn't think you would take it the wrong way but others might think I was some right wing nut. The scientist keep changing their mind based on new information which just speaks to half-assed research with caveats and a lack of conviction. I joke btw I know there are often constraints to research. I leave science alone sometimes as so much has to do with being at peace with whatever one practices or believes in.
I very much enjoyed your joke - it was great.
And yes, those scientists are always flip-flopping back and forth on their words — can’t trust em, I tell ya ;) haha
I agree, figuring out and making peace with what you believe is all we can do and I think it’s all we really need to do :)
It took me ages to figure that out.
Your philosophy rants are my favourite - either in person or online. Not that I’m really that well versed in philosophy, but you are my favourite philosopher.
This is wonderful, as always!
Evelyn you so kind! No one has ever called me their favourite philosopher before hehehe
You are also so funny! Because its not that I don’t appreciate what your saying, it’s just that sometimes when I rant my philosophical jibberish to you in person, the look on your face gives me the feeling that your not all that interested in my musings....
Nah I’m just kidding chicken, I love ranting with (at) you. Thank you for your thoughtful comment. And thank you for putting up with me in person.
I think you brought a refreshingly humorous and original POV to the usual heavy, tryptophan-laced buffet of learned philosophical thought surrounding the age-old question of WHY?, and the equally valid obverse, BECAUSE. But I can’t know for sure.
Thank you, Kathleen. I’m glad you found my philosophical rant humorous. I have always found it strange that so much of philosophy is written in the dry, tryptophan-like way (great use of that word by the way) because it seems like there is room to have fun with it. So I figured I’d give it a go. I’m glad it worked for you.
And thank you for reading and for sharing your thoughts in this comment, it is much appreciated :)
Thank God I'm an atheist - and a closet Red Bull nihilist - my brain hurts lol - well done ME - keep up the great work -
What brain
Shots fired ;)
🤫🫤😊.
If I can just put in my 3 and a half cents worth.
We the people with our size brain are trying to make sense of something that is beyond our comprehension.
The universal brain or consciousness God whatever we call it is way out of our understanding league.
It’s like me expecting my cat 🐈 slinky Malinki 😊 to understand how a motorcycle works .
But but there’s always a Butt 😊.
If one sits still and calms the mind a universal mind Gods mind will reassure us there’s no-thing to worry about no-thing to do just be.
We forget we’re Human beings
Not human doings.
So in closing we will never know if the universe cares or doesn’t care. Until we go back to our creator.
Then if we decide to take human form again (fuck that for a joke this is my last time round in a physical body) we forget where we came from and start all over again.
Carlo the truckie over and out 😊
Hear hear!
Well said Dad!
“a closet Red Bull nihilist” may be my favourite description ever!
Thank you, Emmett for always providing the most whimsical comments.
P.S - I don’t know what’s up with this Carlo fella taking an unnecessary shot at you ;)
🤫🫤😊
Ha lucky we know Carlo is so cute
OK so it’s Thanksgiving morning, which means the holiday onslaught has begun, which means that if you and I were on my text program I would be sending you a GIF of Kevin from Home Alone running around his house, spinning ecstatic circles, waving hands in the air, screaming in glee, and clenching his fist with an ever-so-satisfied, “YES!”
My whole teaching system is designed off the Elements, dude, and in this system I am constantly asking these things! Literally - "how do YOU know, did you ask them?” How does anybody know that the rocks and the water and that little smidge of air over there and the candle flame and this electron of that star are not conscious? We can finally see what trees are doing with each other now. Does my liver CARE what I feed it or only my mind/heart after the effects of my feeding have hacked off my liver enough that now it’s giving me pain and problems? When you say “I wub you” is it only my brain that cares (even though I say it’s my heart, and for that matter, is the physical heart truly involved or are the pangs I feel in my chest when you “pull my heartstrings” simply a result of biochemical reactions and what my mind thinks about that mushy thing you just said to me, as subject to my personal makeup, experiences, influences and my survival-instinct, seratonin/oxytocin, pack/herd bonding brain, thus creating the “feeling”--and then what about my “gut feelings”? Are my gut organs actually involved in the caring or is it only the part of my brain sending signals to Keep Organism Alive and my large intestine couldn’t give two craps, especially when I feed it too many carbs on not enough probiotics)?
Does my consciousness and caring include the whole nervous system, not only my slab of zombie-nom? Does that system include all the energetic residue within me and surrounding me that, when I croak, ceases animating this flesh and bone? When I bite the big one, does that energy go into a star or a newt or the water that drowned me or some dimension my piddly human brain can’t comprehend and if so, does it keep caring and if not, WHY? I dunno. Do I care? YES! And equally, a great resounding NOPE. What about when my energy reaches out and dances with somebody else’s? What about all the aspects of me that human scientific instruments can’t record yet?
In other words: thank you. You do this way better than I do. All this Kevin-ness is why I dance these things, not put them into words because…well, you already said it. They’re too big and too cool and too fascinating and it thrills me that you were able to at least start touching upon what makes me go all 🤩🤔😻🧐🤯🥰 over that most wondrous of life’s gifts: curiosity and the answer of, “I dunno.” (Of course...is it a gift? Is it a curse? Is it both? Yeah. Both! Neither? Who’s to say it’s good or bad? Because some of the most awful, painful things I’ve ever endured led to the most amazing things I never would have experienced without it so IS it bad? The reverse is equally true. And what is “bad”? And who says? And do I really KNOW that I don’t know or do I *Know* but I don’t currently know that I know? And…and…and…)
Long story short: It’s Thanksgiving Morning, dear gem, and you are an instigator of that sensation in mah brains and my heart and my AND. The only problem I had with getting to the end of this post was not getting distracted by all the gazillion questions and curiosities each of yours ignited into offshoots like Hobbits accidentally setting off one firework into the whole tent of them. FFS. Shutting up now. 🤣
Wow, Alexx! That was freaking epic!
There is no way I can properly respond to your comment without going on my own curiosity fuelled rant where I start by saying:
“dude, I know, right!? I mean, when I have a thought about the particles that make up my brain does that mean my particles are thinking about themselves? And how are they thinking? Do they have super tiny particles in their head that fuel their thoughts? And how far down does it actually go? And how crazy is it that we now know trees communicate with each other through the ground? And what’s the deal with some us being so curious anyway? Is it something in me like in my DNA? Or is it something I learnt through my parents - because they don’t seem very curious. And why can’t science measure curiosity, and yet we acknowledge it exists, but other things that science can’t measure we seem unwilling to acknowledge that they exist? And don’t even get me started on rocks. No word of a lie, Alexx, one of my philosophy professors once gave some example about consciousness and she said that “we know rocks aren’t conscious” and I raised my hand and said “how do we know that?”
(I liked your rant way better than mine, but I tried).
Now while I could go on indefinitely, let me just say, reading your comment made me smile so much!
It is always so nice when you come across someone else who matches your level of eccentricity.
And thank you so much for saying you enjoyed the way I put my mess of curiosity into words, that is such a lovely compliment. And I must say, I think you do far better at conveying your own curious musings than you give yourself credit for.
Thanks Alexx, you freaking rule! :)
“Dude, I know, right?!” I can see that it would be a never ending, spiraling tidy bowl of dork-doom if one of us didn’t put a lid on that because yeah! Particles--and what about dimensions? See, your version at least did a really great translation for...ahem...people whose skull contents aren’t firework-thieving hobbits trying to masquerade as brains. I can translate some of my topics. But when you get me ponging off a really great ping like this one? The 12 hamster wheels all start spinning and I get way too excited going “meep-meep-morp-blonk.” 👽🤖 I’m so glad you understood (and even enjoyed) my untranslated native language. 🤪
If you dig the trees and their communications, have you seen the North Forest Lights series I’m doing over on Tinkerings? SUCH a mind blowing art/nature exhibit inspired largely by that phenomenon! Especially the Crystal Grove. (1st installment) Here. Lemme get the link.
Your so right, it is endlessly exciting. And I absolutely love the way you said it: “The 12 hamster wheels all start spinning and I get way too excited going “meep-meep-morp-blonk.”” — that was fantastic!
I have not seen The North Forest Lights series you’re doing over on Tinkerings (I don’t know what either of those things are) but you have certainly piqued my interest. I’ll be sure to check out the link. Thanks!
Woot! Tinkerings is my 2nd of 3 Substack publications. It’s my Safe(er) For Work art & nature, 5 elements, creative rabbit hole, 12 hamster wheel hyperfixator hub. In contrast to the other 2--my memoir stuff and related fiction, and my fantasy fiction--those can get NSFW. 🤪
Awesome, I’m going to check it out now. :)
Ok here’s the opener and what this exhibit was. It’ll take you to the rest if you follow the links, or they’re all at the top of the Tinkerings page cuz I’m on #5 of 7 in the series. (Intro, the 5 installations, and the amazing tech behind the scenes when I went during the day as they were tearing it down.) 🤩
https://open.substack.com/pub/elementalalchemist/p/faerie-lights-in-the-forest
So brilliant, Michael, as always, this was so much fun. I find it’s so sweet (so sweet!) that human beings think they could ever actual understand ‘the universe’ with a human brain! It makes me think of a monkey trying to tune a piano using a hammer—like, “ok, but, not only are you just not mentally equipped for that, you’re also using the wrong tool! Bless, though, I hope you’re having fun, at least!”. I’ve come to quite enjoy the not-knowing, and while I love that I’ll never know, I certainly hope that panpsychism (or panexperientialism at least) is part of the Truth, because I like the idea of that kind of world (and it lines up nicely with my DMT experiences 🤫). Thank you, Michael!!
Thank you, Chloe. Your right, it is ohh-so-sweet that humans think they could ever actually understand the infinite. It’s actually kinda cute, like I understand the urge, but I, like you, actually appreciate not knowing — it’s humbling.
As for your hope that a panpsychist or panexperientialsim view is closer to the truth — I share such a hope, and partly because of my own DMT experiences. After all, such experiences are hard to discount (I think you know what I mean).
Thanks Chloe :)
You're a great companion to explore these matters with, M.E. Thoughtful stuff.
Thanks Jason! :)
Ohhh that last line is a zinger! This essay made me cackle like a maniac part of the universe enjoying one big cosmic joke. Trying to pick apart this big hairy problem reminds me of this funny saying I picked up in my psych degree—"The study of psychology is the just the human brain trying to understand itself."
It's seems so comical that the tool we have in our head is trying to understand the tool we have in head. Endless loops can happen there (and maybe that's the point?). And I guess the same could be said from your post. Maybe we are trying to 'Understand The Universe' as part of the Universe. Hence we have to come up with a bunch of convoluted ideas and theories and just stick to the one that 'works for us'. As you said, maybe God isn't dead—we've just replaced it with other entities/beliefs.
Around age 27, it hit me I had replaced 'God' with 'Science'. For me, 'God' was something that my Jewish ancestors had used to survive and get me here today. But the old school 'HaShem' wasn't so relevant to my life growing up in secular/loosely Christian Australia.
Instead—'Science' was the all-knowing, irrefutable measurement of 'Truth'. And it wasn't until something deeper than science emerged in my consciousness that those ideas started to break down. After all that, I came to a similar conclusion as you did in this essay: I certainly am PART of The Universe. But what that means for me/you/us/the people/the planet/the universe etc... As you stated to eloquently—we just don't know!!
P.s. I really liked the layout of this post with the philosophical arguments all laid out one after the other. I'd read another one of these for sure.
Thank you, Renee for such a thoughtful comment :)
I’m glad this piece made you laugh.
I also came across the idea of the mind trying to understand itself in my philosophy degree — it is such an interesting conundrum.
I’m so glad you mentioned the many convoluted ideas we come up with to understand something we can’t — as that was definitely a part of my intended point.
Yes, I had a similar experience, I totally fell into “the all-knowing truth” of science there for a while. It does certainly feel like it is the god of our time.
And thank you, I’m happy to hear the ending resonated with you and you enjoyed the lay out. It very much appreciated :)
Ah you're welcome Michael. It's interesting that came up the philosophy degree too (although maybe I shouldn't be surprised bc psychology has roots in philosophy). Yes. I couldn't agree more that science often feels like the god of our time. I wonder what the next god will be? But I have a feeling it might be after our lifetimes... What do you think?
Sometimes I wonder about what people will believe in the next 100 or 1000 years and how they'll look back on our many convoluted ideas lol.
Yeah I did a ‘philosophy of mind’ class, and it discussed that and the Cartesian heritage and the subjective objective split etc., it was very interesting.
I imagine if they do make actual legit conscious AI that could definitely be touted as a god for a while
Yeah, that thought entertains me too. I mean, what behaviour do we do now that people in 200 years will see as morally abhorrent behaviour? That one always makes me laugh because really it should help the people of today not feel so morally superior to the people of the past, because soon enough we will be them.